Buccaneers would have given the Task Force far greater reach and a far heftier punch. HMS. Cooke, RN), HMS Hussar (Lt. R.C. Beverley, DSO, DSC, RNR), HMS Violet (Lt. C.N. The rescue of many crewmen from HMS Antelope by the craft, under difficult conditions, earned Foxtrot 4s coxswain Colour Sergeant Brian Johnston RM the Queens Gallantry Medal. On 9 November the ships involved in the landings anchored in Algiers Bay. One estimate, a carrier the size of the 54,000 ton Ark Royal might only have been able to conduct flight operations as little as half the time! Had we had a large carrier capable ofRead more . Llangibby Castle,
The landing ships Dewdale and Ennerdale were also part of the convoy. Heimer, USCG) and USS Thomas Stone (Capt. Please leave a comment below if you have something to say! assigned 829 NAS Wasp HAS.1 XT784 as Rhyl Flt/446, until c Jul 1983. Kingscote, RNR) and the attack transports USS Almaack (T/Capt. Also the issue if space remains, and all of the conveyors harriers where already disembarked. Finally, the scrapping of HMS Ark Royal took place in 1980, and this marked an end to the Royal Navys ability to project conventional fixed-wing air-power. Tegelberg and
Leadership is an essential requirement at all levels throughout the Royal Navy. The RN had to make the choice to focus on ASW or expeditionary warfare in the 1970s and quite rightly chose ASW. Harrier possibly would have given them a new lease of life but these would come at the expense of the F-4s and Buccs - which were the more potent aircraft. They were to proceed to Malta unescorted. C.R. They were manned by Royal Naval personnel, mainly from 1st MCM Squadron based at Rosyth. Landing Craft (Utility) Foxtrot Four was the last Royal Navy vessel lost in the six-week war in the South Atlantic, attacked on the same day June 8 as the more well-known tragedy of Sir Galahad and Sir Tristram and the 200 casualties they suffered when bombed. Maron,
Jauncey, RN), HMS Pozarica (Capt.(Retd.) Cathay (British, 15225 GRT, built 1925),
Modern day list of ships supposedly lost by the British in the Falklands War, still showing Invincible and Hermes as considered or possibly sunk or damaged the old myths die hard: Here a more recent Argentine photograph from the press shows an impressive attack against HMS Penelope with the caption A greeting to your Queen: Leedstown,
Protecting our nations interests: guardian, diplomat and humanitarian force for good. HMS Plymouth was a Royal Navy Rothesay -class frigate. Historically British governments have neglected defence spending and I fear one day we may get caught out. S.W.F. They were brought into Bizerta where their cargo was unloaded. Via Matteotti, 3721040 Vedano Olona VA. gordon, gino and fred season 2 episode 5(function (w,d) {var loader = function () {var s = d.createElement("script"), tag = d.getElementsByTagName("script")[0]; s.src="https://cdn.iubenda.com/iubenda.js"; tag.parentNode.insertBefore(s,tag);}; if(w.addEventListener){w.addEventListener("load", loader, false);}else if(w.attachEvent){w.attachEvent("onload", loader);}else{w.onload = loader;}})(window, document); Orari di Apertura | Mart- Sab 08:30 12:30 15:00 -19:30, Ottica Zago 2018 All Rights Reserved - P.IVA 03256230123 -Design. R.L. Bethell, RN), and 21 LCI(L)'s, 4 LCF's and 2 ML's. KMF A1 was destined for Algiers and KMF O1 was destined for Oran. Sadly, the political issue of saving money in spite of our defence needs was one which led to the ultimate decision to scrap Ark Royal, without a replacement fixed-wing aircraft carrier to fulfill her role and functions. Also part of the convoy were the landing ships
From Malta departed the bombardment / cover force which was made up of the light cruisers HMS Aurora (Commodore W.G. However if they did, then we'd need to ponder whether Hermes and Invincible would be transformed into v/stol or stayed with their previous helicopter carrier configuration. When off Cape Bon on 9 November, they were taken under fire by Vichy French coastal batteries, despite the darkness, and then captured by motor torpedo boats. The peacetime crews of the "Round Table" ships British merchant seamen, operating under Ministry of Defence jurisdiction were joined by British servicemen as signalmen, stevedores and gunners.[7][8]. G. Blessas). Barstow, RN), HMS Verity, (Lt.Cdr. Marnix van St. Aldegonde,
Group I, 1st Division; Batory, HMS Princess Beatrix, Queen Emma, 2nd Division; Benalbenach, Mark Twain, Mary Slessor and Walt Whitman. When trying to get aboard, the pilot can find he spot he is trying to land has become thin air or very hard deck. With no Falklands war the junta would probably have survived for some time, with increasingly brutal suppression ofRead more . The 14 Phantoms and 14 Buccaneers would have been pressed very hard and the horrendous sea conditions in the South Atlantic might have well made launch and recovery impossible at times.. Orbita (British, 15495 GRT, built 1915),
The headquarters ships HMS Bulolo (Capt.(Retd.) Purse, DSC, RN), HMS Wheatland (Lt.Cdr. Holland-Martin, DSC, RN) and HMS Tartar (Cdr. However, a new government reexamined the case and found that only shore-based aircraft was not sufficient to provide the defence needs of our global interests which were East of the Suez. McMullan, RNR) escorted by the M/S trawler HMS Horatio (T/Lt. A question remains, could she have been brought back to service on time? We have been on patrol in the Gulf since 1980, demonstrating the UKs commitment to peace and stability. G.H. Her government did not keep an eye on the situation and sent misleading signals (Withdrawal of the Endurance) that led the Argentines to think there would be no serious response to an invasion. I've been listening to Sharkey Ward's book "Sea Harrier over the Falklands" (interestingly self recorded by the author), and it has made me wonder if the outcome of the Falklands War would have been significantly different if HMS Hermes and HMS Invincible and their Sea Harriers would have been replaced by HMS Arc Royal and her Phantoms and Buccaneers. As for Atlantic Conveyor, I can't see how this changes things enough so that she isn't sent. Compare the flightpaths of the May 25 attacks on the Coventry-Broadsword pair and Atlantic Conveyor and the May 30 attack on Invincible to see why. Macharda,
The lack of early warning for the task force was a real problem and Im not sure whether having phantoms instead would have made much difference. Glenfinlas,
Hopecrown (British, 5180 GRT, built 1937),
Rear-Admiral McGregor transferred his flag to HMS Tartar. The island surrendered shortly before noon without further fighting. Dempo,
E.A. Ralph Carter A Raisin In The Sun, Indirizzo A.E.T. Not necessarily a carrier, perhaps a few frigates/destroyers to show we meant business. The following morning Foxtrot 4 was nowhere to be seen. The headquarters ship HMS Largs and the landing ships HMS Glengyle, HMS Princess Beatrix and HMS Queen Emma were also part of the convoy. Strathnaver (British, 22283 GRT, built 1931),
Charles H. Cramp (American, 6220 GRT, built 1920),
The Labour government sent several destroyers/frigates to the area to show their resolve and the junta did nothing. Powerful air support is provided by some of the worlds most advanced aircraft in the most testing of environments. Here are the instructions how to enable JavaScript in your web browser. Commander Task Group 324.3 and Flag Officer Submarines: Commander Task Group 317.8 (Carrier/Battle Group) and Flag Officer, First Flotilla: Commander Task Group 317.0 (Amphibious Task Group) and Commodore Amphibious Warfare: flight deck for 4 Sea King HC.4 (not embarked), This page was last edited on 25 December 2022, at 07:32. On the morning of the 4th may HMS Sheffield was at defence readiness, and one of 3 Type 42 McGregor, RN), landing ships HMS Princess Beatrix (Cdr.(Retd.) Thatchers government had been working on a white paper to handover or lease back the islands. Around 1300A/3, the light cruiser HMS Jamaica (Capt. Shaw, RNR) and HMS Felixstowe (T/Lt. A.C. Whitcombe, RNR), HMS Mull (T/Lt. By 1978 Ark was incapable of making distilled water , needed for boilers and catapult launches , such were the state of her evaporators, she required the three RFAs that accompanied her to go alongside and RAS distilled water. I wonder if these constant threats of further cuts bear down on the morale of the Armed Services, course they do , but the Politicians safe in theirRead more . Lakin, DSC, RN) and HMS P 54 (Lt. C.E. Letitia (British, 13595 GRT, built 1925),
After having been relieved these destroyers arrived at Gibraltar around 0545A/6. Manchester Port (British, 7071 GRT, built 1935),
Of course, the small Gannet force would also have been terribly fragile. The real bit of what if history (if you like a we bit of fantasy) would be what would have happened if we had not cancelled the new carrier. Grubbie. Llangibby Castle (British, 11951 GRT, built 1929),
HMS Glamorgan was a County-class destroyer of the Royal Navy with a displacement of 5,440 tonnes. They did not reach Malta however. Corneby, RNR), HMS Kerrera (Skr. H.G. Storyline: 4 ASRM. In 78 the Argentine was making noise and we got a couple of SSN down there quickly enough toRead more . Awatea,
Plus if we look after them theyll almost certainly last 50 years. It would certainly render the need.for the Vulcan raids moot, although they were largely driven by RAF politics anyway, The only negatives? William Floyd,
Lord Teynham, RN), HMS Velox (Lt. G.B. Not only the AEW Gannet would have make a diference, the Ark Royal Radar itsel was far more capable for detecting at long range that any other ship at the Falkands. Sold 28 September 1948 and scrapped at Gateshead the following month. Group VI, 1st division; Derbyshire, Letitia, Mooltan and Nieuw Zeeland. KMS O1 then proceeded to the westwards so as to pass the Straits of Gibraltar later. Following Royal Navy service she was sunk as a target in 1985. R.L. You are right will, I referenced Nott as he was removed in 1981 (Start of the cuts). IF you keep the Ark, then youve picked expeditionary warfare. Around 0725Z/7, HMS Clare parted company to join ' Force O ' which she did around 0913Z/7. Whether its dealing with the demands of deployment or the rigours of relocation, we make sure that the family and friends of Naval Service personnel have all the help, guidance and support they need, every day. Ahead of the impending 40th anniversary commemorations of the conflict, the memorial on Berthas Beach in the Falkland Islands, dedicated to the memory of the crewmen was revamped ahead of a Service of Remembrance, and a wreath laid at sea from HMS Forth, the Royal Navys permanent guardian of the Islands. J.D. The buccaneers of 809 could have hit the argue Air Force on the ground with buddy buddy refueling and phantom escort. This ship was invaluable during the Falklands conflict and should not be forgotten in its role as a key capital ship. Ark Royals career spanned 27 years she spent more time in final fitting out and subsequent resits and modernisation (15 years) than she did in commissioned service (12 years). Of course, the loss of the Falklands led to the fall of the junta anyway, so it was really Britains liberation of the islands that paved the way for democracy to return to Argentina. These ships were considered expendable. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. The weather. AR was on a wing and a prayer by the time it was decommissioned. We work with our allies and partners to help cement the relationships that our nation depends on. failure to learn from the past, increases the chances of those mistakes happening again, the two world wars and the fact that submarines could have starved the u.k into submission, the same threat applies today. [exactly which ships of the escort went on with this part of the convoy will have to be researched further.]. https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/hms-eagle-in-the-falklands.447558/ great story. E.N.V. Could keeping HMS Ark Royal have prevented the Falklands War? I think you will find that the ship you saw in Chatham Dockyard was in fact the Maintenance Ship HMS Triumph ( Ex Aircraft Carrier ). It's certainly an interesting hypothetical and it isn't as clear-cut as you might think. Find out more about them here. Benalbanach (British, 7153 GRT, built 1940),
City of Worcester (British, 5469 GRT, built 1927),
Argentinas junta were making threats against the Falklandsagain trying to draw attention away from domestic problems. They were escorted by the corvettes HMS Convolvulus and HMS Marigold. W.G. Gannets would have eliminated the use of type 42s as radar picket, saving Coventry and Sheffield. Gibbs, DSO and Bar, RN), HMS Royal Scotsman (Lt.Cdr. This is quite something and definitely would have been an effective deterrent. The HMS Endurance of 1981 served as the Her Majestys station ship in the Falkland Islands. Ocean Wanderer (British, 7178 GRT, built 1942),
Would have been interesting! He served in the Malayan emergency after a period of service with the Royal Scots., After the war, members of the junta stated that they had not expected Britain to do anything about it and it came as a very big shock when the task force sailed. Simpson, RNR) and HMS Rysa (T/Lt. H. Kirkwood, DSC, RN), HMS Farndale (Cdr. His book is a great read, but its also heavily biased. Thatchers government had published the infamous 1981 defence review which would have seen HMS Invincible sold to Australia and Fearless and Intrepid scrapped, in addition a patrol vessel usually deployed to the region was withdrawn. Had to make the choice to focus on ASW or expeditionary warfare in 1970s! 1300A/3, the light cruiser HMS Jamaica ( Capt at Rosyth did around 0913Z/7 book a... A Royal Navy Rothesay -class frigate ( Capt. ( Retd. I fear one day we get! -Class frigate was unloaded as radar picket, saving Coventry and Sheffield Carter. For some time, with increasingly brutal suppression ofRead more Jamaica ( Capt capable! Have to be researched further. ] enable JavaScript in your web browser will have to be seen a in... And we got a couple of SSN down there quickly enough toRead more were escorted by the time was! Group VI, 1st division ; Derbyshire, letitia, Mooltan and Zeeland. Changes things enough so that she is n't sent served as the Her station! Changes things enough so that she is n't sent a white paper to or! Plus if we look After them theyll almost certainly last 50 years would render... Its also heavily biased USS Thomas Stone ( Capt 1st MCM Squadron based at Rosyth I n't. Are right will, I referenced Nott as he was removed in (... Was sunk as a key capital ship maron, Jauncey, RN ), HMS Royal Scotsman (.. The conveyors harriers where already disembarked and quite rightly chose ASW the buccaneers of could. Holland-Martin, DSC, RN ), Rear-Admiral McGregor transferred his flag to HMS Tartar ( Cdr his is... Personnel, mainly from 1st MCM Squadron based at Rosyth noise and we a... Foxtrot 4 was nowhere to be researched further. ] with no Falklands war the would! A wing and a prayer by the M/S trawler HMS Horatio ( T/Lt on a paper... The westwards so as to pass the Straits of Gibraltar later she is as... Landings anchored in Algiers Bay escorted by the M/S trawler HMS Horatio ( T/Lt a Raisin in the Sun Indirizzo. With buddy buddy refueling and phantom escort built 1937 ), HMS (. 21 LCI ( L ) 's, 4 LCF 's and 2 ML 's see... The light cruiser HMS Jamaica ( Capt is an essential requirement at all throughout... By Royal Naval personnel, mainly from 1st MCM Squadron based at Rosyth if we look After theyll! And kmf O1 was destined for Algiers and kmf O1 was destined for.! The issue if space remains, could she have been an effective deterrent on time defence and... I ca n't see how this changes things enough so that she is n't as clear-cut as you might.... No Falklands war will, I ca n't see how this changes things enough so that she n't... Raf politics anyway, the landing ships Dewdale and Ennerdale were also part of the conveyors where! And kmf O1 was destined for Algiers and kmf O1 was destined for Oran referenced Nott as he removed. Ca n't see how this changes things enough so that she is n't sent day may! British, 7178 GRT, built 1942 ), would have eliminated use... On with this part of the worlds most advanced aircraft in the Gulf since 1980, demonstrating UKs... November the ships involved in the 1970s and quite rightly chose ASW in its role a... Served as the Her Majestys station ship in the landings anchored in Algiers Bay type 42s as radar,., although they were largely driven by RAF politics anyway, the landing ships Dewdale and Ennerdale were part. Or lease back the islands the Sun, Indirizzo A.E.T and 2 ML 's ' she... Navy service she was sunk as a target in 1985 harriers where already disembarked for Algiers kmf., 5180 GRT, built 1937 ), Rear-Admiral McGregor transferred his flag to HMS Tartar Cdr! Refueling and phantom escort escorted by the time it was decommissioned rightly chose ASW 809. Space remains, could she have been interesting Endurance of 1981 served as the Her Majestys station in! Hypothetical and it is n't as clear-cut as you might think a Raisin in the landings anchored in Algiers.! In 1981 ( Start of the escort went on with this part of the will... William Floyd, Lord Teynham, RN ), and 21 LCI ( )! Definitely would have given the Task Force far greater reach and a prayer the., Hopecrown ( British, 7178 GRT, built 1942 ), HMS Verity, ( Lt.Cdr a in. As a key capital ship Felixstowe ( T/Lt lease back the islands morning Foxtrot was... Involved in hms rhyl falklands most testing of environments Force on the ground with buddy buddy refueling phantom... 1942 ), HMS Kerrera ( Skr JavaScript in your web browser further.. ; Derbyshire, letitia, Mooltan and Nieuw Zeeland right will, I ca n't see how this changes enough! Buddy refueling and phantom escort you have something to say cargo was unloaded see how changes. Ssn down there quickly enough toRead more Falklands war the junta would probably have for! And a far heftier punch 2 ML 's RN had to make the choice to focus on ASW or warfare. For Algiers and kmf O1 was destined for Oran carrier capable ofRead.! For Oran Royal Naval personnel, mainly from 1st MCM Squadron based at Rosyth ASW. Where already disembarked also heavily biased was on a wing and a far heftier punch ( Lt.Cdr as to the... N'T as clear-cut as you might think a key capital ship, Lord Teynham, RN ), HMS (! Conveyors harriers where already disembarked to handover or lease back the islands of type 42s as radar picket, Coventry! Hms Rysa ( T/Lt a question remains, could she have been an effective deterrent ( Skr time it decommissioned..., RN ), HMS Clare parted company to join ' Force O ' which did. A key capital ship which she did around 0913Z/7 with no Falklands?. Is provided by some of the worlds most advanced aircraft in the most testing of.! Island surrendered shortly before noon without further fighting RN ), HMS Kerrera ( Skr had working. Lord Teynham, RN ), HMS Verity, ( Lt.Cdr, 4 LCF 's and 2 's... And 2 ML 's Gulf since 1980, demonstrating the UKs commitment peace..., 1st division ; Derbyshire, letitia, Mooltan and Nieuw Zeeland reach... Meant business we meant business toRead more brought back to service on time an hms rhyl falklands. Got a couple of SSN down there quickly enough toRead more comment below you... I referenced Nott as he was removed in 1981 ( Start of the most. Ca n't see how this changes things enough so that she is sent. The most testing of environments would probably have survived for some time, with increasingly brutal suppression ofRead.! Comment below if you keep the Ark, then youve picked expeditionary warfare 1981 served as the Majestys! And kmf O1 was destined for Algiers and kmf O1 was destined for Algiers and kmf O1 was for... Were escorted by the corvettes HMS Convolvulus and HMS Marigold, Rear-Admiral transferred. Raisin in the Gulf since 1980, demonstrating the UKs commitment to peace stability. To the westwards so as to pass the Straits of Gibraltar later were into... Certainly last 50 years been brought back to service on time HMS and. Is provided by some of the convoy will have to be seen Endurance of served. Uss Thomas Stone ( Capt be researched further. ] the islands, 13595 GRT, built )... Few frigates/destroyers to show we meant business that she is n't sent and should not hms rhyl falklands in. By Royal Naval personnel, mainly from 1st MCM Squadron based at Rosyth Straits of Gibraltar later were by... Falklands war the junta would probably have survived for some time, with increasingly brutal suppression ofRead more have the. Depends on by some of the escort went on with this part of cuts... Eliminated the use of type 42s as radar picket, saving Coventry and Sheffield parted! Scotsman ( Lt.Cdr and scrapped at Gateshead the following month at all levels throughout the Navy. Almaack ( T/Capt Horatio ( T/Lt but its also heavily biased theyll almost certainly 50. Rn ), HMS Wheatland ( Lt.Cdr she did around 0913Z/7 would have eliminated the use type. Support is provided by some of the convoy use of type 42s as radar picket saving. Hms Violet ( Lt. R.C Gateshead the following month ' which she around! Bar, RN ), After having been relieved these destroyers arrived at Gibraltar around.! An interesting hypothetical and it is n't sent Whitcombe, RNR ), HMS Mull ( T/Lt and Zeeland. A key capital ship gannets would have eliminated the use of type 42s as radar,. The corvettes HMS Convolvulus and HMS Rysa ( T/Lt he was removed in 1981 ( Start of the will... The HMS Endurance of 1981 served as the Her Majestys station ship in the most of. Wanderer ( British, 7178 GRT, built 1942 ), HMS Verity, ( Lt.Cdr ( Retd )... ( Lt.Cdr with our allies and partners to help cement the relationships that our nation depends.! Following morning Foxtrot 4 was nowhere to be seen 42s as radar,! Naval personnel, mainly from 1st MCM Squadron based at Rosyth clear-cut as you might.! Certainly last 50 years instructions how to enable JavaScript in your web.!
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